2020 – The Year of William Munsey

Y-DNA “Full Scholarship” Available for One Direct Descendant of William Muncy

Of course you know that the main focus of the Muncy Family Database is information about the descendants of Francis Muncy and William Munsey. Unfortunately the descendants of William Munsey represent a small subset of the overall database. Less than 1,500 individual records are included in the William Munsey portion, compared to about 9,000 from the Francis Muncy records. We need a better balance!

My New Year’s Resolution for the Muncy Family Database is to attempt to grow the information about William’s descendants. 2020 will be the Year of William Munsey.

For many years researchers have believed that William Munsey (Muncy) and Francis Muncy were close relatives, possibly brothers, but there is no proof. Y-DNA testing can provide a proof of relationship. While a Y-DNA test cannot prove they were brothers, it can establish a close relationship. For those not familiar with DNA testing, a Y-DNA test compares the Y-chromosome present only in males, and because Y-DNA is passed down from father to son with very few changes it becomes a very important tool for genealogical research.

FamilyTreeDNA (FTDNA) is the only option available at this time for Y-DNA testing – and FTDNA sponsors a Muncey Project that allows comparison of Y-DNA among those taking the Y-DNA test. Descendants of the Francis Muncy family are well represented in the Muncey Project, but to date the project does not contain the results of a single descendant of William Munsey. Without a baseline Y-DNA test, we will never know if William Munsey and Francis Muncy were closely related.

To remedy this situation, we have purchased a 111-marker test (a $200 value) that can be assigned to ONE volunteer who is a proven direct descendant of William Munsey. The Muncy Family Database will be used to validate direct descent. The results of the test will be entered into the Muncey Project at FTDNA and the kit will be administered/managed by me (Steve Muncy). The name of the volunteer tester will be anonymous unless he wants his name added to the kit.

Are you, or do you know of, qualified candidates for this test? Older Munsey males are great candidates because there is less chance of a mutation in more recent generations, but any direct male descendant is free to apply. Would Grandpa Munsey be willing? Any interested parties should contact me directly for more details on the requirements and process of taking the test.

It is hoped that after the first test is added to the Muncey Project, additional tests from William Munsey descendants will be forthcoming and that partial scholarships for testing or upgrades can be made from the Muncey Project General Fund.

By the way, you need not have taken a test a FTDNA to join the Muncey Project and I hope many of you will do so. Simply jump over to:

and click the join button. You can also contribute to the General Fund to help sponsor additional tests. Members of the project also receive a discount on all FTDNA tests, so be sure to join before you sign up for a test.

Steve Muncy
steve@stevemuncy.net
admin: MuncyFamily.Info
co-admin: FTDNA Muncey Project

How Jail Time Solved the Mystery of Samuel Muncy’s Wife

For many years it had been thought that Mary Skidmore was the wife of Samuel Muncy. This was published in several prominent publications, including “The Descendants of Francis Muncy I with Allied Families,” by Mary Edith Shaw, (1948) and “Early Settlers of Lee County, Virginia and Adjacent Counties,” Vol.II, by Hattie Byrd Muncy Bales (1977). Shaw’s book is less definitive saying that “Samuel’s wife was Mary…No records have been found of Mary’s family. The descendants of Holton Muncy were told that his mother was a Skidmore.” Bales, however, says “Samuel Muncy (son of Francis II and Abigail) married Mary Skidmore, a cousin, according to family tradition.” And so this tradition gained acceptance and was widely promulgated as fact. The problem is that it is wrong.

We know this because of a fascinating story of the experience of Samuel Muncy being grabbed by by authorities and thrown in jail.

In 2001, John C. Carter posted a reference to the Pennsylvania Archives on rootsweb, telling this story.

Pennsylvania Archives
First Series – Volume 1
1664-1747
page 401-402

Deposition of Sam’l Moncey, 1733

Samuel Moncey of Murther Kill Hundred [Murderkill Hundred] in the County of Kent, on Delaware, Planter, being solemnly sworn on the holy Evangelists maketh oath. That on the second Day of April last, three Persons to this Deponent then unknown, but whose names he has since been informed are Jacob Heynman, Peter Rich and William Underling, came to his House about the time of the Sun’s setting, told him they had mistook their Road; desir’d him to go a mile or two with them to set them right, and promised him a Pistol for his Trouble; whereupon this Deponent agreed to go; But when He had rode about a mile with them, instead of performing their Promise, they violently seiz’d upon him, and carried him by Force to Cambridge Goal in the County of Dorset, in the Province of Maryland, which is about eighty miles from this Deponent’s House, and would not suffer him to eat or drink on the Road, when they themselves did. As soon as this Deponent arriv’d there which was about one of the Clock after noon the next Day, (having rode all night.) He was put in Irons and detain’d there one Week; after which he was carried to Annapolis and put in Goal there among the Criminals that were confin’d for House breaking and coining of Money; allow’d nothing but the bare Ground to lye on, and loaded with more Irons than He had at Cambridge, which were continued upon him untill He was bailed out, which was not till after He had been imprison’d there six Weeks and three Days. And this Deponent further sayeth that He was allowed only such coarse and scanty Provission, that had it not been for the Kindness of Charles Carrol, Esqr, He believes He should have been almost starved. And further this Deponent sayeth that neither before his Confinement in Cambridge Goal, nor on his Removal thence to Annapolis and Confinement there, was He ever examined touching any Facts laid to his Charge, nor was He ever made acquainted with the Cause of his Commitment, or saw any Warrant or Precept for it. And further this Deponent sayeth not.

The 2nd deposition from William Daugherty not only affirms Samuel Muncy’s deposition, but clarifies the last name of Samuel’s wife Mary.

Pennsylvania Archives
First Series – Volume 1
page 440

The Deposition of William Daugharty, taken before John Housman, Esq. and one of his Majesty’s Justices of Peace in ye County of Kent on Delaware.

William Daugharty aged Forty six or thereabouts, being sworn on ye Evangelist of Allmighty God, Saith yt on Tuesday ye second day of April last, hearing his son in Law Samuel Monsie was decoyed out of his county into Dorsett County, Maryland, by Jacob Hinman, under Sherief of same county, and Two other men, viz. Peter Rich and William Underlin, of said County, and yt he heard his son was taken down to Cambridge Goal; upon which he this Deponent with said Monsie’s wife went down to Cambridge Goal on ye fifth of the same month, to know ye cause of his commitment, and to carry him some Cloaths and other necessarys to support him; at which time he this Deponent found his son in Law Samuel Monsie in said Goal hand Cuffed with Irons., which the deponent saith prevented his putting on Cloaths yn very necessary and yt John Cullings, who was yn Goaler, would not allow him, This deponent, To have any converse with his son in Law, but when he was present, & would not allow him this deponent to goe further yn ye entrance of ye Doors, and further this deponent Saith yt his son in Law Samuel Monsie yn complained much of yt ye Irons very much hurt him, Especially his Right Arm, and yn this deponent requested said Cullings, Goaler, To Take those irons off, and to putt on Bigger for Monsies ease, and yt said Cullin replyed itt not Lye in his power to take ym off, untill he had orders from Mr. Tripp, ye high Sherief and further Saith not.

his

William X Daugharty

mark

Kent Co, Delaware
Jurat Coram Me,
August ye 24, 1733

 

Before we condemn Samuel Muncy for some heinous crime, we should be aware that there were land boundary disputes between Maryland and Pennsylvania and Delaware. Delaware and Pennsylvania were closely aligned, both being proprietorships of Penn and his descendants. Delaware and Pennsylvania shared the same governor. Kent County, Delaware paid property taxes to Delaware, but some land were contested. It is likely that the dispute that landed Samuel Muncy in jail was for failure to pay taxes to Maryland on contested lands or possibly a case of mistaken identity.

 

We now know that the name of Samuel Muncy’s wife was Mary Daugherty, not Mary Skidmore.

September 2019 Update

Changes During the Month

Nine new registered users for the Muncy Family Database were added in August. That’s a record number of new registrations. Thirty-Five photos were added and over one hundred changes were made to individual and family records in the database

New Group Added to William Muncy Descendants

We welcome the descendants of James and Esther (Clark) Muncy of New York into the Muncy Family Database. We have known about James Muncy and his New York descendants for some time, but it has been difficult to connect them to either Francis or William Muncy. However, a review of William Muncy’s descendants shows that William’s gg grandson, David Munsey, had at least five sons who were raised in Stafford County, New Hampshire. All of these sons — except Daniel — remained in New Hampshire and raised their families. However, Daniel moved into New York (Columbia County and later Oneida County). James was born about 1793 in New York, possibly Columbia County where his brother was born in 1791. This birth date coincides closely with the birthdates of sister Deborah (b. 1783 in Oneida County) and John (b. 1791 in Columbia County). There may well have been other children. While it is not proven that James Muncy is a descendant of William Muncy, no other logical candidates emerge at this early date in New York. Therefore the descendants of James Muncy of New York have been imported into the William Muncy database until evidence proves this is not where they belong. We continue to investigate this New York family and seek any additional information you may have!

New Database Tree Added

A new database tree “Unconnected Muncy Lines” has been added to allow updating of individuals records and families of those lines that have not yet been connected to Francis or William Muncy. When using the “All Trees” selection in searching, the unconnected lines database will also be searched.

Albums

One feature of the Muncy Family Database (MFD) that has not been widely implemented is “Albums.” An Album is a grouping of media. An Album can include any number of media, and any particular media item can belong to multiple Albums. Like individual Media, Albums can be linked to People, Families, Sources, Repositories or Places.

So what specifically can be included in Albums? Obviously, family photos come immediately to mind. These can include photos of family members or photos of headstones, old homes and buildings, etc. Also included in Albums can be links to family groupings and family documents. A PDF file (or photo) of a family Bible or important family letters might be great items to include. Another item that can be useful in a family Album are maps showing the location of various homesteads.

I have included one Album as a sample of what can be done with this useful feature. The “Levi N. Muncy Descendants” Album is available to review by selecting the “Album” option in the left menu item. This Album is limited at present, but it can give you ideas on what can be done with the Album feature.

Expansion of Albums is up to you. What kind of family album do you want for your family, and what information do you have that should be added. Don’t worry – I will set it up for you, but you need to determine the extent of the imformation to be included and who should be included in your album. Just send me an email expressing interest, or use the contact us form and we’ll get started!

Welcome Descendants of James and Esther (Clark) Muncy

We welcome the descendants of James and Esther (Clark) Muncy of New York into the Muncy Family Database. James Muncy and his New York descendants have been known for some time, but it has been difficult to connect them to either Francis or William Muncy. However, a review of William Muncy’s descendants shows that William’s gg grandson, David Munsey, had at least five sons who were raised in Stafford County, New Hampshire. All of these sons — except Daniel — remained in New Hampshire and raised their families. However, Daniel moved into New York (Columbia County and later Oneida County). It is believed that James was born about 1793 in New York, possibly Columbia County where his brother was born in 1791. This birth date coincides closely with the birthdates of sister Deborah (b. 1783 in Oneida County) and John (b. 1791 in Columbia County). There may well have been other children.

While it is not proven that James Muncy is a descendant of William Muncy, no other logical candidates emerge at this early date in New York. Therefore the descendants of James Muncy of New York have been imported into the William Muncy database until evidence proves this is not where they belong.

We also applaud James and Esther Muncy’s sense of humor. The first name of all eight children begins with the letter “A”. It should be pointed out that some descendants of Daniel Munsey adopted the “Munsee” spelling.

August Update

(submitted a little early since I’m traveling the first week of August)

Expiration Notices Sent In Error

A loose nut on the keyboard resulted in expiration notices being sent to all registered users of the Muncy Family Database. Each registration is subject to expiration after two years of inactivity. The notice was intended for three registered users, but was unfortunately sent to all registered users. A follow-up email was sent, but just in case it didn’t reach you – you can safely ignore the expiration warning, unless of course you have not logged in in two years. My apologies for the confusion.

Database Activity

July was an active month with nine new registered users added during the month. Seven new photographs have been added. About 175 individual records have been added or changed. Be sure to check “What’s New” to see the additions and changes in the past 30 days.

Genealogy Website Links Added

For researchers, a drop-down list of genealogy websites is now included on the personal pages of database records. The available options include Ancestry, FamilySearch, FindAGrave, GoogleWeb, Wikipedia, GoogleBooks, MyHeritage, National Archives, Rootsweb Surnames, and Rootsweb WorldConnect. Selecting a site from the available options automatically prefills search data for the site and opens a page on the service’s web site. However, you may want to double-check to see that the fields were prefilled correctly. Some sites, particularly Ancestry, slightly alter their search forms depending on how it is accessed. (Nothing I can do about this, so just confirm the form is filled correctly.) For some services, you must be a member or registered to open the information (Ancestry, FamilySearch, MyHeritage). (Note: this addition is a separate module offered by a third party and I am unable to provide support for the various services. — Steve)

Tips for Submitting Photos

Whenever possible, submit your photos as JPEG, TIFF or PNG files, but I can convert most formats. If you are taking a photo of a framed photograph, remove the original from the frame (or at least remove the glass which introduces glare). Try to make sure that you have the correct angle when taking a photo of an exisiting image – in other words, the top and the bottom of your photo should be the same width. If you don’t do this, it is likely that your photograph will appear warped. If you are taking photos of an image with your cell phone, I suggest you take multiple shots and send in the best of the bunch. I usually try to “clean up” dust spots, scratches and alignment issues in Photoshop. The better your original, the better the final copy will be. However, I can’t spend hours restoring old photos. Be aware that old negatives and original photograph deterioriate over time. If you have a cherished old photo or tintype, I suggest you have it professionally scanned and restored in photoshop to preserve it for the future. Don’t wait until the old photo is too far gone for restoration!!! Photos submitted should be of: (1) a Muncy or alternate spelling; (2) the spouse of a Muncy; or (3) the child of a Muncy. Please, no photos of individuals whose grandparents were Muncy and not included in the database. You photo submission should contain the ID number of the person referenced in the photo.

Steve
steve@stevemuncy.net
admin: MuncyFamily.info

July Update

MUNCY FAMILY DATABASE TOPS 10,000 !!!

The Muncy Family Database (MFD) now includes records on more than 10,000 persons in the William and Francis Muncy trees. This represents over 3600 families. The Francis Muncy family continues to dominate the database with a total of 8700 included in Francis Muncy Descendants, but we are continuing to add to the family of William Muncy Descendants. Currently the William Muncy database includes 1300 individuals and 514 families. If you are a descendant of William Muncy, you can help us get those numbers up! Use the worksheets (described below) to submit information to be added to the database.

MFD NOW INCLUDES ENGLISH RECORDS

A new English tree has been added to the database. The “English Families Not Connected” tree includes information on almost 2500 individuals in England during the 1600’s, 1700’s and 1800’s. Sources for this information is primarily parish records. While extensive, there is a lot more information out there that is not included in this tree. Where possible, family groups have been linked but in most cases the information necessary to link them has not been found. Unlike the trees for descendants of William and Francis Muncy in which almost all “Muncy” references begin with “MUN”, there are many refereces in this tree that begin with “MON” and “MOUN.” For this reason, you should more limit your search to a specific tree (rather than all trees) or even better use the “soundex of” pop-up option in the advanced search box for the last name. Using the “soundex of” option results in a list of all names sounding alike so you would get “Mouncey”, “Munsey”, “Monsy” and “Muncy” in your results. This tree has been added to assist those who might want to do further research into family links in England. I do not anticipate putting a lot of personal time in on this tree since I’ve got a load of other duties, but I’m happy to assist anyone trying to use this tree to explore English roots – and even happier to update any new information you may find. If you are interested in researching the Muncy family in England, be sure to read the items listed in “Research Data” in the column on the left.

FAMILY WORKSHEETS

Family Worksheets were incorporated during June. You can now submit family group worksheets to update information in the database. Worksheets can remain active for future updates and changes and can be accessed online by simply clicking a link in your acknowledgement email. Worksheets are reviewed by the Administrator and merged when the information is deemed reliable. The Submitter’s Guide has been updated to include this information and instructions.

“RIPPING” DATA PROHIBITED

Unfortunately, some genealogy web sites have suffered from robots or users who rip data from the database in MASSIVE amounts. Our system protects data for living or recently deceased persons so you should have no security concerns. We want the Muncy Family Database to be a useful tool for family research – but this is a two-way street. We need information from users, and we want to supply accurate and helpful information to those who are searching their family history. “Riping” a genealogical database by downloading hundreds or thousands of names that have no relation to your genealogical search is a violation of the purposes of the Muncy Family Database. We have no way of knowing how this data is to be used — but it isn’t used for researching your personal family history. In order to make sure that our system is used the way it is intended, we are prohibiting the “riping” of data by registered users and will take steps to make sure this does not occur.

REGISTRATION NOW REQUIRED

In order to implement better security features and prevent ripping of data, registration is now required. Registration is simple — just click the link on the Muncy Family Database home page and fill in your information. You registration request will be approved within one day, and usually in a matter of hours.

Claude Henderson Muncy Sr.: Looking for Connections

Claude H. Muncy (b. 1895 / d. 1974) was a son of William Tecumseh Sherman Muncy (Sherman) and Essie Catherine Tudor Muncy. He was born in Oklahoma and died in Arkansas after serving for over thirty years in the U. S. Navy. He had one child — a son named after himself, Claude H. Muncy, Jr.

Claude Jr. became a hero after he was killed on the U.S.S. Arizona at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. Claude Sr. lost his only son–his only off-spring. Claude Jr. was not married.

Claude Sr. outlived his second wife, Violet Bettis Muncy.

I was recently contacted by a family that had inherited papers and photos from Claude Muncy Sr. They obtained these materials after a distant cousin died who was a distant cousin Claude. These materials were sent to me in the event that a relative or connection to Claude Muncy can be found who wants them. Many of the photos, letters, etc. are related to the Doshier and Halley families.

If you are connected in any way to Claude Muncy, I’d be happy to send you these materials to keep them in the family. Just send me email and describe your family connection to Claude Muncy.

Read Those Notes!

While using the Muncy Family Database and selecting a record after a search, you will be presented with a tabbed screen providing different kinds of information for that individual’s record. Information  provided for that record includes personal information, media, notes, sources, and a event map.

The Sources tab provides a list of sources for the information  in the  individual record.  A record with no sources, or a very limited number of sources, can be suspect. It is important to know that the sources of information are credible, unlike Ancestry where you will encounter many users who  do no research and rely almost solely on the opinions of others.  Don’t fall into this  trap! You will find most of the names in this database have good sources and that can be your assurance that the information is well researched.

The Notes tab is an EXTEMELY important source of information – and you should always read the Notes tab on the individual record. This is where you will find Find A Grave memorial numbers, and notes that certain information is not proven or speculative. Unfortunately,  try as hard as we  might, we are not  always able to  prove descent or relationships. This is where “we think  he is the son but  can’t prove  it” notations are made. There are many examples of this in the Muncy Family Database, and you won’t know that a relation is speculative unless you READ THE NOTES!

Were The Early Muncys Vikings?

For many years Muncy genealogies have stated that the Muncy line originated in Normandy. It was assumed that one or more Muncy ancestors came to England with William the Conqueror, and that the Muncy name (and similar spellings) were a corruption of De Monceaux. An eminent authority “Dr. Whitaker” contends that the line originated from Roman families who possibly settled in Gaul and then came to England with William the Conqueror. All these assumptions are based on the “Munsey-Hopkins Genealogy” by D.O.S. Lowell in 1920. As far as I know, this century-old theory has never been fully investigated or authenticated.

Is this true? I don’t know. I once accepted the theory as fact but now have serious doubts.

Dr. Whitaker and D.O.S. Lowell were using information available to them at the time. Today, we have access to far more information and records and what we now know casts a serious shadow on the Rome to Normandy to England theory.

DNA is telling us a lot. And Y-DNA is opening our eyes to new possibilities. For those who aren’t familar with Y-DNA, this form of DNA is passed down ONLY from father to son. Mutations can and do occur along the way, but I have essentially the same Y-DNA as my Muncy ancestor 1000 years ago. Through Family Tree DNA I tested my Y-DNA at the 111-marker level. That is normally as high as you can go without going to a very expensive, very detailed test known as the “Big Y.”  You can’t really go any further than the “Big Y.”  I felt no need to do the Big Y test because my 111-marker test was giving me comparisons I needed and wanted and was proving very, very helpful in my genealogy searches.

I was surprised when I received an email from a group asking if I would take the Big Y test – and they would provide a scholarship (covering the entire cost) for the test.  It seems that they had seen my 111-marker results and some additional SNP testing I had done and were intrigued. They believed my results matched the groupings from Norway and Sweden and they were interested in Viking descendants in England. I was a good candidate for their search and I consented to the test.

It took a long time to get the final results, but the results confirmed what they believed.  I am currently classed as I-S8104. A few others in the Muncey Project who have had more extensive testing done are also included in the I-S8104 group. I am confident that others in the Muncey Project would also be included in this group if they extended their testing.

ALL OF THE OTHERS CLOSELY MATCHING ME IN I-S8104 ARE IN NORWAY OR SWEDEN. No one closely matching me in this group is in France or Normandy.

Starting in the eighth century B.C., Viking invaders began incursions and settlements in the British Isles. The BBC has a good summary of Viking activity in England that I won’t repeat here. (summary of Viking activity)

So, does this prove that the male ancestors of today’s Muncy family came to England as Viking invaders? Although I believe this is probably the case, it does not rule out that our ancestors came as invaders from Normandy with William the Conqueror since there were also some Viking descendants in Normandy. However, we currenly show no close matches in France and we do show close matches with Norway and Sweden. It is possible that more extensive testing in France will show the presence of I-S8104 descendants.

DNA testing is changing how we research our family history. For those males who carry the Muncy surname, I strongly urge you to consider having a Y-DNA test at Family Tree DNA and joing the FTDNA Muncey Project.